You've just described the entire generational / marketing rollover paradigm for all rock and roll records, ever.

You've just outlined exactly how rock and roll is marketed, and has always been marketed, ever since the first dad yelled "Turn that fucking noise off!"

And if that hadn't happened, we'd all be listening to polkas.

So... I mean, if you only want to like music that 20 other people like and that's what makes it special to you, I suggest you spend your entire life with the same 20 people.

I mean, never mind that, eventually, one of you will yell "POSER!" at the other one....

It'll be the beginning of a new "genre" that only 19 other people will like, and it will only last a week.

: )

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I wanted my half in the middle and I wound up on the edge.

Rock was originally a blues-inspired music form. Its message never had anything to do with "not selling out". Popular rock bands were the norm from the start, with Elvis Presley paving that little road. Punk, on the other hand, was an underground, noncommercial form of rock. It was commercialized, and channged to be happier and annoyingly polished. Being good and getting well known because your music rocks is different from being well known because you're on heavy rotation on MTV.

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Do you want ants? Because that's how you get ants.

It's turning the anti-pop into pop, but making everyone think they're still listening to the anti-pop.

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Poop.

quote:

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Originally posted by: Me, elsewhere

Emo is originally a sub-genre of Hardcore. Emo is actually a short way of saying "Emotive Hardcore". When it first started back in 1984, it was almost identical to DC hardcore except the lyrics were more emotion oriented, as opposed to hardcore lyrics being about society/politics. As time progressed, so did Emo, and revisions were made. There were bands like Indian summer, taking it in one direction, and bands like Heroin, taking it in the other. Indian Summer focused on the "Emotive" part, and Heroin focused on the "Hardcore" part, both were still emo, but now emo was a broader genre.

Emo is a type of music involving mostly screaming, with loud heavy distorted metal-like riffs, but also more complex. the guitar seems to almost be not in key most of the time, due to the complexity of some songs. When not screaming, words are spoken, not sung, to add an atmosphere of disfunction. This all takes place in verse. Singing can, and often does take place in chorus, though. Yaphet Kotto is a good example of a band that does that.

Most emo lyrics are about emotional things, such as suicides, depressions, relationships etc. Quite frequently imagery or personification is used, and that's when it's hard to determine the difference between Metalcore, Hardcore, or Emotive Hardcore. HORSE the band does that a lot.

When in the soft parts of songs, live emo bands play with their backs turned in to the audience. Lots of post-hardcore bands do the same, and more popular bands such as Thursday recreate this old emo tactic.

Emo songs can be short, under a minute long.. but still be played with the same complexity as 4 minute long songs. These are usually the very hard and fast ones. The softer, slower ones can get quite long(Indian Summer - Woolworm).

The most famous emo label is Level-Plane records

The best known, and probably most listened to emo artists are Saetia, You and I, Orchid, Indian Summer, Embrace , and Rites of Spring.

There are bands that aren't emo persae, yet a number of songs by them will seem emo. These are bands like Fugazi and Husker Du(the band credited for creating the first emo album ever).

People's assumption of what emo is is totally distorted from the original definition. This is due to the fact that there are very little emo records on cds, most are on rare vinyls that were never re-released.This is also because a lot of people think "Emo" is just short for "Emotional", which means any band could be emo, since all music is emotion driven.

People often mistake pop-punk bands such as Taking Back Sunday and brand new as emo when in fact they are merely pop-punk. Their lyrics may seem "emo" at times, but in reality they possess none of the qualities emo represents. There is nothing "Hardcore" about them.

The mass-media has made up a screamo genre by composing bands like vendetta red and poison the well, which are really just mall metal. The concept of screamo was to be "emo with screaming", but since emo already is mostly screaming, that would just be saying "screaming music with screaming" and that's pretty redundant. If screamo were a real genre, a band like Orchid would fit in.

Then people make the assumption that indie rock or indie punk bands such as Alkaline Trio or Bright Eyes are emo. This is also false.

Bands such as Dashboard Confessional, Rocky Volotalo and Homage To Catalonia are what is known as post-indie technically, or more simply, Acoustic Pop Ballads.

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

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I wanted my half in the middle and I wound up on the edge.

So, it's like the student art film of music?

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Poop.

Music is music. You're a moron if you base your opinion on a music label.

I disagree.

The student art film of music are instrumental bands that have absolutely no direction or order and just sounds like a fat mess.

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There are too many separate rock music categories now. Someone does something with a slight variation on an old theme and it gets its own category, and it's just fucking stupid.

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Legend, oh legend, the third wheel legend...always in the way.

I say we take all the different rock categories and combine them into one gigantic monster rock category than make a seperate rock category for the rock categories that wouldn't fit into the gigantic monster rock category. We will label these rock categories rock category one and rock category two.

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Get Your War On

I can't believe there are so many genres and sub-genres.

I want to murder everyone who helped make that possible.

It sounds completely like the yuppie tendency to label everything, put it in nice, neat little boxes and stack them properly.

That's why yuppies work, shop, and probably masturbate at stores like Crate & Barrel and The Container Store.

Fucking die, please.

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The giant three-phallused phallus of Uzbekistan will one day squirt the cosmic jizz of revenge all over Canada.

Wanna go masterbate at the Crate and Barrel?

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Poop.

I've been saying that major-created genres and sub-genres were a bloody joke for YEARS and people said I didn't know what I was talking about.

Welcome to the view from bunnerland.

If you only listen to one thing, you may as well not listen to anything.

There is no old school, there is no new skool there is only stuff you like, stuff you don't like and if you always eat from the same bowl on the table, you may not be getting your MDA of kick-ass, folks.

Listening to only post-thrash, cold-core, emo, speed, grunge doesn't make you a badass. It makes you a person with the artistic scope of a carpet stain.

You wanna impress me with your musical depth and eclectic tastes? Go and listen to about 4 greatest hits CD's from a variety of artists and genres.

If you turned off the CD player after three songs and started playing GTA3VC, never mind. Music isn't important to you, and you just need something to keep you occupied while you chew gum.

That's fine.

But shut the fuck up about music.

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I wanted my half in the middle and I wound up on the edge.

I'm going to assume you meant Major Labels, correct?

Because Emo was created by Dischord back in 1984, and back then, like now, they were not a Major Label.

quote:

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If you only listen to one thing, you may as well not listen to anything.

There is no old school, there is no new skool there is only stuff you like, stuff you don't like and if you always eat from the same bowl on the table, you may not be getting your MDA of kick-ass, folks.

Listening to only post-thrash, cold-core, emo, speed, grunge doesn't make you a badass. It makes you a person with the artistic scope of a carpet stain.

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Moreover onto the argument, I was never trying to impress you anyway. If all I've done with posting this is angered a few of the musically inclined folk here then so be it, but I'm willing to bet that at least one person who read that is double-taking their whole outlook on it.

"Hmm...maybe I was wrong."

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If one more person says he likes everything but rap, I'm going to put on a CD of Burmese folk music. That should shut them the fuck up for a minute.

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What others say about boorite!

Same can be said for polka, I think.

I'm pretty sure no one actually enoys it, they're just humouring themselves.

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quote:

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[
Welcome to the view from bunnerland.

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I did, indeed, mean major labels. Dischord is not a huge label, no. Label's started creating sub-genres and niche marketing way before Dischord got on the scene.

I never said YOU were trying to impress me, or that anybody was. That's called a "rhetorical construct."

Sub-genres are a wank, and they always will be.

Freebird is played out and you should never ride in that car again. (That's called light humour.)

Yelling "FREEBIRD" at cover band shows isn't ironic, either, folks. Stone played out.

"Emo", or any other crock of shit genre label is just another way of saying "You don't need talent, just a 'new' label to paste on the back of it. Somebody will buy the label."

That's simply my take on it. Nothing more. That was called "an objective opinion."

I don't know if I've ever heard any Burmese folk music, but I do like some rap, as well.

I would be willing to listen to some, though, before pronouncing it utter shit.

That's called irony.

There is something to be said, IMHO, for hit records and what makes them hit records. I don't give a shit about the pre-fab, titty/butt, auto-tuned diva brigade
and I really don't give a fuck about multi-hyphenated "This is so cool only four people are into it!", Indy Pete approach to hipness, either.

I like hit records.

We need more of them.

Hit records, I have empirically noted, usually become hit records because a whole lot of people like them and are willing to slap down some cash to own a copy of the song.

Greed and lazyness fucked that up pretty good.

I want to boot out the idiots and get the machine back in working order so that talented artists, good producers and AE's, and music fans can all get back to the business of being happy.

The only way that can happen is for record labels to remove their heads from their collective rectums and stop trying to gank people with a 14.99 bill for one hit song in a sea of shit by an artist that couldn't get arrested if they weren't being flogged as either a (F) whore or a (M) badass.

They also have to start using internet distribution.

Duh.

So bring on the "emo", bring on the asscrack jeans bitches, hell... bring on the Burmese folk music.

CAUTION RHETORICAL STATEMENTS AHEAD:

1): But don't tell me what's good, and why. I will happily return the favour.

2): Pay for music if you like it.

3): Listen to everything before you pronounce it "cool" or "shit".

4): Don't try and sell me on the idea that shit is champagne because of it's genre pedigree. Nothing will ever replace notes, melody, and on key singing in music. Nor should it. A hundred years after we're all dead, SOMEBODY, somewhere will load a device into another device, and that device will play a Frank Sinatra song, and that person will say "Sonofabitch. This guy can sing."

YMMV.

And yes, I can see my feet, Boo. I'm a middle aged fat bastard, but I'm not THAT fat.

You cunt. :-)#)

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I wanted my half in the middle and I wound up on the edge.

Green Day SUCKS. I hate Green Day. But they have a few good songs.

Dave Matthews SUCKS. I hate Dave Matthews. But he's got at least one good song I like.

The only generalization I can honestly make is that MOST NEW MUSIC IS SHIT.

As for what bunner is saying, most pop music now has so much more manufactured content than it had in, say, the 60's. The Beatles wrote their own music, but they're considered one of the first MAJOR pop bands. Jennifer Lopez had a team of 17 writers and producers to make her first album.

I rest my case.

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The giant three-phallused phallus of Uzbekistan will one day squirt the cosmic jizz of revenge all over Canada.

Not to mention about three or four Alsihas editing the living piss out of everything she does in Pro Tools HD Accel - to the point where there's not much left of what was actually played or sung - and people "straightening out" the beats with Beat Detective and dropping in samples they actually want to use with Drumagog until the original drum tracks are nothing but a click and a reference, using Auto Tune to correct the pitch of every note and alter and time stretch the phrasing until she might as well be a robot and lots of drop in edits to substitute the "best" phrase sample for the ones that weren't quite "perfect"....

Pop songs have always been manufactured, but they've pretty much thrown out the baby with the bathwater with Pro Tools.

I don't evne think they NEED J Lo anymore... Or anybody.

Just some samples, an amp farm, some soft synths, a MIDI workstation and voila.. hit record.

I mean, if you -like- listening to the same meaningless ooh and ah, computerised, "oooh baybee baybee" shit over and over with a different face on the CD insert.

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I wanted my half in the middle and I wound up on the edge.

Any form of art is subjective.

It's hard to build strong arguements in general that one genre of art is "bad", while another is inherently "good".

Personally, I can't stand mainstream radio, pop, or rap music 99% of the time.

I can't say that I don't own any "pop" CD's. I certainly own a lot of Beatles records, and occassionally there is a pop artist I enjoy (like say, Fiona Apple).

It should be noted that I got a demo of the Tidal CD years and years ago. I've found that often, an artist is poorly represented by music videos, or the singles that radio stations play.

I don't completely write off an entire artist of genre off a single. I can't count how often a band seems coerced to do a single to make radio stations happy, when the rest of the album sounds NOTHING like said single.

Personally, I get bothered by elitism just as much as I get bothered by sheep who listen to Boy Bands and the like.

My CD collection doesn't have a theme, or genre running through it. There's ska, indie, alternative, classical, rock, pop, and industrial dominating in parts, but you'll find an album here of there that will surprise people.

I think most music lovers have collections that are fairly diverse. I won't berate someone for buying an album because they sincerely like it.

I look down on people who have very narrow tastes and views on music, be it from elitism or conformity. (Is there really a difference?)

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"Nihilism makes me smile."

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I will rate you hard, and unendingly.

My CD collection has a sparkling mountain stream running through it, just like in the Coors commercials.

I look down on people whose musical tastes don't strictly conform to mine.

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Legend, oh legend, the third wheel legend...always in the way.

The hell you say.

That's a form of elitism.

Yes.

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I wanted my half in the middle and I wound up on the edge.