I SAID "goofbag". That means I'm getting the joke and being nice. Goofbag is sort of a term of endearment. Like "doofus".

I mean.. did I not sign it "love, bunner"?

You kids are so mean.

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I wanted my half in the middle and I wound up on the edge.

I know, you silly old goat.

That's why I did that gay kiddie disclaimer ";)" thing at the end, to show that I'm just a goofbag young'un with a heart of gold and pants full of bullets.

You get the picture.

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The giant three-phallused phallus of Uzbekistan will one day squirt the cosmic jizz of revenge all over Canada.

*sHuDdEr*

Yeah....

8^ |

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I wanted my half in the middle and I wound up on the edge.

The problem with rock and roll, like most forms of music, is that the industry caught up with it and learned how to homogenize it and sell it to the lowest common denominator. Like all forms of radical art or culture, it starts with a great bang of creativity and exhuberance, then becomes watered down by every imitator looking to ride the slipstream into the mainstream and that half-assed version is pushed by the industry as a safe, easily controllable and disposable version of the nuclear intensity of the original, and purchased by the great unwashed, who look to MTV, radio as the ultimate arbitors of "cool."

The same thing has happened with every great musical movement of the past century... ragtime, jazz, blues, rock and roll, psychedelia, country-rock, metal, punk, new wave, rap, techno, alternative, etc. There will always be the true "artistes" existing well below the cultural zeitgeist (and a lucky few who can exist within the system), but the bland will always triumph in the end.

That said, the new Costello is fab. So's the rerecorded "Smile."

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I has a flavor!

Well said, and the fact that you even know who Greil Marcus is warms me.

Bangs did lay it out on the coroner's table more than once, but Lester was a bit of a Nihilist, aside from being great writer. Get a copy of "Psychotic Reactions and Carburetor Dung" if you doubt his skills.

Yeah, LCD marketing is where the rub lies between art and commerce, and rock music is one form where neither of those two, dichotomous forces will ever be able to kick the other out of bed.

As the form convolutes and re-invents itself, tho, I keep seeing a larger hand from all sort of market channels scooping in to twiddle the product and wag the dog just a bit harder, and it saddens me.

From the bloated posturing of rap tothe Ashlee Simpson debacle, more and more of the emporer's clothes are falling to the ground, even for the ostensbily impressionable, targeted age group that the market portends to cater to.

I wonder, though...

Isn't rock and roll a personal thing?

If it's alive and well on your internal 16 track, doesn't it's presence on the cultural radar screen, mainstream and otherwise, meet with recognition from the poeple who actually still celebrate it's intent form?

I dunno...

I don't think it's a museum piece, yet, despite it having it's own museum, now.. (about 120 blocks from my house...) but I think it's time to stop trying to deconstruct it chronologically by genre. None of it's incarnations are dead, to my mind, via having lost the chart space of the day. It keeps coming around. It's perhaps a bit aged and avuncular, now.. but it's still enjoyable.. and saying that "rock is dead" is like saying "and everything that came after it went down with the ship", IMHO.

Perhaps, at this juncture of convolution in American popular music, it is truly, as the kids say "all good."

The only thing obvious about this ramble is that I need sleep.

Sorry.

- bunner

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I wanted my half in the middle and I wound up on the edge.

Shit...

"Ostensibly"

"Intent and form"

*sigh*

Would it be so much to have editing privs for your own posts folded into the .php, here?

It's like.. a few lines of code.

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I wanted my half in the middle and I wound up on the edge.

I think the real problem with rock 'n' roll is that its possibilities were exhausted somewhere during the summer of 1966. I can't blame bands for turning to high concept as a result. Wait, yes I can.

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What others say about boorite!

Yes, how is it that this threadbare manner of bobbing and gesturing and fist-pumping and mic handling has not gone out of style? How has it that it has even spread to hard rock bands? Can't rappers come up with some fresh way of presenting themselves? That gangsta shit is so, like, two decades ago.

Man, if that doesn't convince you, then what will it take?

Of course not. A form is dead when its expressive capacity is exhausted-- that is, when it has nothing left to say. Which happened to rock 'n' roll a long time ago, when it morphed into "rock music." A form is dead when it is employed only ironically or for nostalgic purposes.

Ah! I certainly never said that. "Rock" is too amorphous to die. "Rock 'n' roll," however, has become period music.

Wait a sec. Does popular music exist? That is, does there exist anything that resembles what we think we're referring to when we say "popular music?" I'm not so sure.

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What others say about boorite!

I personally consider Guns 'N' Roses to be rock 'n' roll. But I'm sure I also consider some older bands that fogeys like boorite and bunner consider rock 'n' roll to be, in fact, rock and/or roll.

So what the fuck do I know?

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The giant three-phallused phallus of Uzbekistan will one day squirt the cosmic jizz of revenge all over Canada.

So, rock and roll was Chuck Berry "chunka chunk chunka chunka", blues guitar riffs with rhythm added and used only the 1-5-7 , 12 bar turnaround structure, and everything after it was rock?

I think Aerosmith did a lot of rock and roll songs. I dunno...

I get the idea of it being relegated to a specific period, and that everything thereafter has simply been a convolution of the form, but.. I'm not sure I completely agree.

As far as there being "popular music", of course there is. It's just not all that popular with people over 14, these days. Perhaps that is as it should be. Some of it's brilliant, most of it's dreck. Perhaps the ratio has changed a bit, but I think that that mix of the two may be as it has always been. Everything on the radio is dope until you start to grow into adolescence and form opinions about what's good and what isn't, and why.

Farming those into markets may be what has helped to create the fragmentation so prevalant in music culture, today.

Popular music as a cultural touchstone came of age in that era between Chuck Berry and the crap that the seventies brought us, politically, remember.

Yes, perhaps the dream is over, and perhaps the likes of our generation's adherance to rock music as an expression of our collective cultural stance and values was a blip on the radar screen, fomented by sheer numbers... but... just maybe... we created something greater than the sum of the parts that will carry forth the message of a time and a place where there was a commonality of goals and ideologies whose nexus was a very expressive and ... happy, yeah.. form of music.

I can only hope.

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I wanted my half in the middle and I wound up on the edge.

A little bit more of the heart of rock and roll has stopped beating today (rest in peace, John Peel).

The Mendoza Line, however, are proof that the bastard's still got life in 'im.

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I has a flavor!

quote:

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I think Aerosmith did a lot of rock and roll songs. I dunno...

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Nah bunner, I wouldn't define rock 'n' roll strictly according to musical structure. Therein lies madness. In fact, I think rock 'n' roll peaked in 1966. Imagine the AM radio playlists in the summer of '66.

Now I'm not saying I have a bright line, after which everything was "rock music." But I can say for sure that if you could take Physical Graffitti back to 1957, neither Dion nor his Belmonts would know what to make of "Kashmir." Something happened in between.

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What others say about boorite!

Dope fueled navel gazing?

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I wanted my half in the middle and I wound up on the edge.

I don't have to. I heard them. For those who didn't...

1 "The Ballad of the Green Berets".....................S/Sgt. Barry Sadler
2 "You Can't Hurry Love"...............................The Supremes
3 "Strangers in the Night".............................Frank Sinartra
4 "Good Lovin' ".......................................The Young Rascals
5 "Reach Out, I'll Be There"...........................The Four Tops
6 "Last Train to Clarksville"..........................The Monkees
7 "Cherish"............................................The Association
8 "We Can Work it Out".................................The Beatles
9 "Turn! Turn! Turn!"..................................The Byrds
10 "Monday, Monday"....................................The Mamas and the Papas
11 "(You're My) Soul and Inspritation".................The Righteous Brothers
12 "The Sounds of Silence".............................Simon and Garfunkel
13 "California Dreamin' "..............................The Mamas and the Papas
14 "Summer in the City"................................The Lovin' Spoonful
15 " A Taste of Honey".................................Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass
16 "Born Free".........................................Roger Williams
17 "Lightning Strikes".................................Lou Christie
18 "Paint It Black"....................................The Rolling Stones
19 "See You In September"..............................The Happenings
20 "Red Rubber Ball"...................................The Cyrkle
21 "96 Tears"..........................................? And the Mysterians
22 "Hanky Panky".......................................Tommy James and the Shondells
23 "You Keep Me Hangin' On"............................The Supremes
24 "19th Nervous Breakdown"............................The Rolling Stones
25 "These Boots Are Made for Walkin' ".................Nancy Sinatra
26 "Winchester Cathedral"..............................The New Vaudeville Band
27 "Wild Thing"........................................The Troggs
28 "A Groovy Kind of Love".............................The Mindbenders
29 "Lil' Red Riding Hood"..............................Sam the Sham and the Pharaohs
30 "Walk Away Renee"...................................The Left Banke
31 "Sloop John B"......................................The Beach Boys
32 "Nowhere Man".......................................The Beatles
33 "Well Respected Man"................................The Kinks
34 "Sunny".............................................Bobby Hebb
35 "When A Man Loves A Woman"..........................Percy Sledge
36 "Let's Hang On".....................................The Four Seasons
37 "Good Vibrations"...................................The Beach Boys
38 "Sunshine Superman".................................Donovan
39 "Paperback Writer"..................................The Beatles
40 "I Hear a Symphony".................................The Supremes
41 "Daydream"..........................................The Lovin' Spoonful
42 "Yellow Submarine"..................................The Beatles
43 "Uptight (Everything's Alright)"....................Stevie Wonder
44 "I Got You".........................................James Brown
45 "Rainy Day Women #12 & 35"..........................Bob Dylan
46 "Mr. Dieingly Sad"..................................The Critters
47 "Bang Bang".........................................Cher
48 "Mother's Little Helper"............................The Rolling Stones
49 "Devil With A Blue Dress On"........................Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels
50 "I Am A Rock".......................................Simon and Garfunkel
51 "Over and Over".....................................The Dave Clark Five
52 "My Love"...........................................Petula Clark
53 "You Don't Have To Say You Love Me".................Dusty Springfield
54 "As Tears Go By"....................................The Rolling Stones
55 "Kicks".............................................Paul Revere and the Raiders
56 "Wouldn't It Be Nice"...............................The Beach Boys
57 "Younger Girl"......................................The Critters
58 "They're Coming To Take Me Away"....................Napoleon XIV
59 "I've Got You Under My Skin"........................The Four Seasons
60 "Time Won't Let Me".................................The Outsiders
61 "Black is Black"....................................Los Bravos
62 "Sweet Pea".........................................Tommy Roe
63 "The Duck"..........................................Jackie Lee
64 "Barbara Ann".......................................The Beach Boys
65 "The Pied Piper"....................................Crispian St. Peters
66 "What Becomes Of The Brokenhearted".................Jimmy Ruffin
67 "Along Comes Mary"..................................The Association
68 "1-2-3" ............................................Len Barry
69 "Poor Side Of Town".................................Johnny Rivers
70 "Elusive Butterfly".................................Bob Lind
71 "Homeward Bound"....................................Simon and Garfunkel
72 "Listen People".....................................Herman's Hermits
73 "Little Girl".......................................Syndicate of Sound
74 "Mellow Yellow".....................................Donovan
75 "Rescue Me".........................................Fontella Bass
76 "Don't Think Twice".................................The Wonder Who
77 "Psychotic Reaction"................................Count Five
78 "Secret Agent Man"..................................Johnny Rivers
79 "She's Just My Style"...............................Gary Lewis and the Playboys
80 "I Saw Her Again"...................................The Mamas and Papas
81 "Cherry Cherry".....................................Neil Diamond
82 "No Matter What Shape"..............................The T-Bones
83 "Beauty Is Only Skin Deep"..........................The Temptations
84 "Don't Mess With Bill"..............................The Marvelettes
85 "My World Is Empty Without You".....................The Supremes
86 "Bang Bang".........................................Joe Cuba Sextet
87 "Dirty Water".......................................The Standells
88 "Gloria"............................................The Shadows of Knight
89 "Bus Stop"..........................................The Hollies
90 "You Didn't Have To Be So Nice".....................The Lovin' Spoonful
91 "Ebb Tide"..........................................The Righteous Brothers
92 "Did You Ever Have To Make Up Your Mind"............The Lovin' Spoonful
93 "England Swings"....................................Roger Miller
94 "Lover's Concerto"..................................The Toys
95 "The Men in My Little Girl's Life"..................Mike Douglas
96 "Shake me Wake Me"..................................The Four Tops
97 "I'm Your Puppet"...................................James and Bobby Purify
98 "Stop Stop Stop"....................................The Hollies
99 "You've Got To Hide Your Love Away".................The Silkie
100 "Flowers On The Wall"..............................The Statler Brothers

Is that a mess, or what? How could all of those different kinds of songs have been popular in one year, and all been played on the same station?

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I wanted my half in the middle and I wound up on the edge.

Rock and Roll is totally alive. Look at all the boy bands.

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"Nihilism makes me smile."

WIXY 1260

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“It is only with the heart that one sees rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye.” - The Little Prince by Antoine de Saint-Exupéry (1945)

That's a playlist? It looks more like the Hot 100.

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What others say about boorite!

Dope fueled navel gazing?

I don't see "Kashmir" as any more ego-driven or intoxicant-fueled than "The Wanderer." It's the Arabesque string section that stands out to me. I think it went like this: As soon as the guitarist or keyboardist discovered the harmonic minor, all of a sudden the sands of the Sahara were burning the lyricist's feet. Sharpen one note, and all the mysteries of the Orient opened to the rock 'n' roll band.

I have another hypothesis: "The Wanderer" aged and became "Aqualung." A cautionary tale, kids, and not a comforting one.

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What others say about boorite!

Yeah, here's what becomes of you devil-may-care rock 'n' rollers with your tattoos and your Chevy convertibles:

Repent!

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What others say about boorite!

What a sad and disturbing construct.

I like to think the Wanderer just married Rosie and had a tribe of brats, got a union job and sucked down a few too many beers on payday.

Aqualung obviously needed a bit of therapy.

As far as minor keys and such, rock sort of expanded it's horizons, globally, over the years.

This gave us stuff like "So" and "Graceland".

Of course, it also gave us stuff like Bjork.

The charts have always been, preponderantly, a sea of shit with a few diamonds floating in it.

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I wanted my half in the middle and I wound up on the edge.

Bjork has a couple of kick-ass songs.

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The giant three-phallused phallus of Uzbekistan will one day squirt the cosmic jizz of revenge all over Canada.

Yeah, I didn't know we weren't supposed to like Bjork. What do you know that we don't, bunner?

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What others say about boorite!

Bjork is a djork.

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Legend, oh legend, the third wheel legend...always in the way.

R U nutz? It's only because of Bjork that tuneless Icelandic art pop is blowing up stupid huge right now.

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I was gonna send a robot back in time, but I got high.