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boorite
April 4, 2006 3:57 AM

Post #217415link

Chuckaduck
April 4, 2006 8:27 AM

I agree. They should start forming the line now.

Pay-per-view cameras must be readied with haste.

Post #217421link

not_Scyess
April 4, 2006 8:54 AM

I love it when people bash one of the two major American political parties as if there's any real difference between them.

Post #217423link

biped
April 4, 2006 12:46 PM

Post #217441link

LuckyGuess
April 4, 2006 1:08 PM

Ted Kennedy looks like he's been stung by a bunch of bees.

Post #217443link

Chuckaduck
April 4, 2006 1:31 PM

quote:
I love it when people bash one of the two major American political parties as if there's any real difference between them.
Are you serious?

Post #217449link

mandingo
April 4, 2006 4:05 PM

quote:
I love it when people bash one of the two major American political parties as if there's any real difference between them.
different flavor of the same cancer

strawberry!

i wonder what a democracy without capitalism would look like. maybe that's the way to go. or maybe democracy with capitalism but with a checks and balance govt dept or something set up to give consumers a way to impose their will on big business, as big business already does on us. for instance, why the fuck isn't it considered 'good form' for businesses to give 2 week notice when they fire somebody like it is the other way around? and what percentage of sports fans do you think want their stadiums named after banks?

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mandingo
April 4, 2006 4:07 PM

quote:
Republicans should be allowed to wander into...

the happiness it brings me hosting that on boorite's server is... indescribable...

Post #217467link

boorite
April 4, 2006 4:53 PM

quote:
I love it when people bash one of the two major American political parties as if there's any real difference between them.

There's a difference alright. The Democrats screw us too, but at least they buy us flowers.

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not_Scyess
April 5, 2006 12:54 PM

The Republicans have started buying flowers, too. Only instead of charing us for the flowers directly, they buy on credit they can't pay back.

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UnknownEric
April 5, 2006 3:09 PM

I once ended a political debate with a friend with the pithy aside: "Both the Democrats and the Republicans are trying to fuck us in the ass, but at least the Democrats brought lube."

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mandingo
April 5, 2006 3:44 PM

i think the democrats are more dangerous because of their fetish for wacking it to the loss of individual liberties

and because one time i took acid and thought that word spelled demon cats and so i stripped naked and cut myself with the jutting angles of tonka toys until i felt my life force encase me in the Ramco bubble of god which protected me from that hellish feline horde

Post #217559link

Twi_prime
April 5, 2006 4:15 PM

quote:
i think the democrats are more dangerous because of their fetish for wacking it to the loss of individual liberties

and because one time i took acid and thought that word spelled demon cats and so i stripped naked and cut myself with the jutting angles of tonka toys until i felt my life force encase me in the Ramco bubble of god which protected me from that hellish feline horde



But you *like* cats.

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boorite
April 6, 2006 1:12 AM

quote:
i think the democrats are more dangerous because of their fetish for wacking it to the loss of individual liberties


The Republicans have that, too, but they wack it to the loss of different individual liberties.

Besides, it's not like an industrialized nation in this day and age would consider outlawing, say, pointy kitchen knives.

Post #217596link

mandingo
April 6, 2006 3:52 AM

quote:
quote:
i think the democrats are more dangerous because of their fetish for wacking it to the loss of individual liberties

The Republicans have that, too, but they wack it to the loss of different individual liberties.
democrats want us to be subserviant to master goverment, republicans want it to be master big business. i say

Post #217603link

Inflatable_Man
April 6, 2006 5:48 AM

Democrats today are nothing more than aging, out-of-touch baby-boomers and the GOP's sniveling, apologist house-niggas. They have no idea what their base wants or even who their base is anymore.

Both current incarnations of the two parties make me sick, but perhaps the Democrats moreso, because say what you want about the Republicans but at least they have the balls to take a stand on issues (even if I disagree with 90% of those stands). The GOP may be absolutely amoral these days, but the Dems are just pussies. Look at how they completely left Fiengold twisting in the wind.

In moral absolutist terms, it's asking who do you hate more... the rapist... or the coward who watches the rape and doesn't do anything about it?

And this is why I don't talk about politics at 7 in the morning with no sleep.

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Chuckaduck
April 6, 2006 10:28 AM

Hey, both groupings are shit. But at least one has a grasp on the timeline of the Earth.

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biped
April 6, 2006 10:45 AM

quote:
Hey, both groupings are shit. But at least one has a grasp on the timeline of the Earth.

Saying that both groupings are shit and then tagging a "but at least one" at the end of it is like trying to have it both ways. "But at least one"s are just as meaningless as "yeah, but"s.

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Kaenash
April 6, 2006 10:51 AM

quote:
quote:
Hey, both groupings are shit. But at least one has a grasp on the timeline of the Earth.

Saying that both groupings are shit and then tagging a "but at least one" at the end of it is like trying to have it both ways. "But at least one"s are just as meaningless as "yeah, but"s.

I see what you are saying. Sort of like if someone said "Pedophiles and Murderers are both Criminals, but at least one has a grasp on the timeline of the Earth." would be illogical in your book, since if you consider both to be similar in one aspect, there can be no redeeming qualities of either group used in the comparison.

This makes sense.

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Chuckaduck
April 6, 2006 12:40 PM

quote:
quote:
Hey, both groupings are shit. But at least one has a grasp on the timeline of the Earth.

Saying that both groupings are shit and then tagging a "but at least one" at the end of it is like trying to have it both ways. "But at least one"s are just as meaningless as "yeah, but"s.
Not at all. It's like two shitty girlfriends, but one can cook while the other burns spam...inexplicably without a burner.

Like having two little wannabe shitheads around the group, but one can tell jokes.

Hardly "have it both ways", sorry.

^_^

Post #217631link

LuckyGuess
April 6, 2006 1:30 PM

quote:
Hardly "have it both ways", sorry.


You can either have the faithless whining pussies or the shady bloated assrapists. Fries? No fucking fries for you.

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boorite
April 6, 2006 7:26 PM

Actually, both Democrat and Republican "leaders" (elites, I'd call them) want us to bow down to both business and government. Only their pretenses and methods differ. In my opinion, Democrats tend to be smarter and more subtle about it, and they throw the average person a lot more crumbs, and so society gets to be a lot more stable. The Democratic Party figured out a long time ago that the best way to control the poor is to pretend to care about them and to give them stuff, but not enough stuff to change the balance of power much. This is smart, and it eventually has consequences that are probably unintended and good for everyone. In the meantime, the weasels in charge make a lot of crooked bucks.

The Republicans, on the other hand, are basically Marie Antoinette these days, with a dash of Hirohito. Eisenhower would puke. I honestly think they're stupid enough to think they can grab grab grab without the peasants eventually hoisting them all on pitchforks.

But this thread wasn't supposed to be about bashing Republicans. It was supposed to be about Republicans wandering into hilarious lethal situations. I think we can all agree that that's a good thing.

Post #217676link

Drexle
April 6, 2006 7:47 PM

quote:

The Republicans, on the other hand, are basically Marie Antoinette these days, with a dash of Hirohito. Eisenhower would puke. I honestly think they're stupid enough to think they can grab grab grab without the peasants eventually hoisting them all on pitchforks.


As long as they continue to sell people on the "American Dream" and make them believe that they too have a chance to strike it rich and be powerful, and that anything "liberal" equates to the government stealing all your money, then the peasants probably won't notice that they're being lied to until it's too late.

The elder generations are the ones who do the voting now, but I wonder whether the 50+ demographic will still turn out to the polls in 20 or 30 years when the apathetic youth of today have gone a whole lifetime without even a thought towards politics, and have never voted a single time in their lives.

Post #217681link

boorite
April 6, 2006 8:35 PM

Post #217683link

ivytheplant
April 6, 2006 8:57 PM

I love it when people generalize an entire generation as being apathetic and never voting. It certainly helps that younger generation relate to the older people.

That's hip, yo.

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Kaenash
April 6, 2006 9:37 PM

If you added up all the individuals who vote in American Idol for a single season, do you think it would equal as many who voted in the Presidential Election of 2004?

Post #217693link

biped
April 6, 2006 9:46 PM

quote:
Hardly "have it both ways", sorry.

^_^



I know you are.

TOTAL BURN

EOT

Post #217695link

ivytheplant
April 6, 2006 11:45 PM

quote:
If you added up all the individuals who vote in American Idol for a single season, do you think it would equal as many who voted in the Presidential Election of 2004?

Well they can vote from the comfort of their own home. Just try getting off from work to go vote for politics. Especially if your bosses know you won't vote how they'd prefer.

Post #217712link

Kaenash
April 7, 2006 6:19 AM

It is interesting how the voting results of american idol are so 'accurate' and despite the fact that some people skew the voting for fun because they can vote more than once, that people feel passionate enough about it to actually do it.

Post #217722link

AngryAmerican
April 7, 2006 6:52 AM

all kindsa danger here...









Post #217728link

LuckyGuess
April 7, 2006 9:26 AM

quote:
quote:

The Republicans, on the other hand, are basically Marie Antoinette these days, with a dash of Hirohito. Eisenhower would puke. I honestly think they're stupid enough to think they can grab grab grab without the peasants eventually hoisting them all on pitchforks.


As long as they continue to sell people on the "American Dream" and make them believe that they too have a chance to strike it rich and be powerful, and that anything "liberal" equates to the government stealing all your money, then the peasants probably won't notice that they're being lied to until it's too late.

The elder generations are the ones who do the voting now, but I wonder whether the 50+ demographic will still turn out to the polls in 20 or 30 years when the apathetic youth of today have gone a whole lifetime without even a thought towards politics, and have never voted a single time in their lives.



Erm... gonna hafta butt in for a sec. As a future political science major, one of the few who actually want to go in to public service (that term is a little out of date. They should change it to "self-service")instead of law or journalism, I not only take great interest in governmental proceedings, but also look forward to voting and being able to do so.

My passion for government is not alone. There are a large number of people in my age group who take an active interest in how the country is run, albeit compared to the people who don't we aren't very noticible.

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ivytheplant
April 7, 2006 12:56 PM

quote:
...apathetic youth of today have gone a whole lifetime without even a thought towards politics, and have never voted a single time in their lives.

Told you so.

I really, really hate those generalizations. It's one thing to say "people are stupid" referring to the entire human race everywhere, but it's something really annoying to say "this group that I'm not a part of and don't understand must think this way because I saw a handful of them doing or not doing something."

That bothers me. A lot. Especially when I've seen the opposite. Constantly. Even if I wanted them to shut up about politics for just ten minutes so I could finish my meal in peace.

Post #217746link

cpausti
April 7, 2006 4:36 PM

quote:
Erm... gonna hafta butt in for a sec. As a future political science major, one of the few who actually want to go in to public service (that term is a little out of date. They should change it to "self-service")instead of law or journalism, I not only take great interest in governmental proceedings, but also look forward to voting and being able to do so.

My passion for government is not alone. There are a large number of people in my age group who take an active interest in how the country is run, albeit compared to the people who don't we aren't very noticible.



I agree. I am probably the most serious about politics(on my side, at least)at my school, and when I went to a rally at ASU in 2004, there were much more college students there than I expected to see. It's not that the youth is completely apathetic, it's just that there are way too many geezers.

Post #217754link

boorite
April 7, 2006 5:04 PM

Given our electoral politics, it's hard to blame anyone for not caring about elections. It doesn't mean a person doesn't care about important things. It means the choice between Frik and Frak seems to have no bearing on them.

Post #217757link

Drexle
April 7, 2006 7:03 PM

quote:

My passion for government is not alone. There are a large number of people in my age group who take an active interest in how the country is run, albeit compared to the people who don't we aren't very noticible.

Ahem.

And about having to take time off from work, or not wanting to leave your home to vote, you can get an absentee ballot and fill it out from the comfort of your living room.

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ivytheplant
April 7, 2006 7:20 PM

Yeah, because we all know how well THAT worked in Florida.

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Drexle
April 7, 2006 7:23 PM

quote:

I really, really hate those generalizations. It's one thing to say "people are stupid" referring to the entire human race everywhere, but it's something really annoying to say "this group that I'm not a part of and don't understand must think this way because I saw a handful of them doing or not doing something."

That bothers me. A lot. Especially when I've seen the opposite. Constantly. Even if I wanted them to shut up about politics for just ten minutes so I could finish my meal in peace.



And it's also really annoying when someone decides that because they don't like the way that something is stated that they're going to get snarky about it when they can't deny the fact that by and large, the actual *point* isn't in dispute. Older folks are more active voters on the whole. Every year the various news media reminds people of that as November rolls around. It's not just statistics, I've seen it personaly. Ever since I turned 18, I have voted almost every two years, and can you guess how many people even remotely close to my age I saw each time? Not many. And as the years go by, I don't see a lot of people younger than I am turning out to vote, and I also don't see a great deal of people my own age taking up the habit out of the blue either.

It's one thing to talk about politics or complain, but it's another to go vote.

Now, rather than just focusing in on what annoys you, try to imagine what would make people who really have never made a habit of voting decide to do it all of a sudden when they hit the magical age of 50. I can't really think of one, which makes me wonder what will happen to the voter turnout in 20-30 years.

Post #217763link

Drexle
April 7, 2006 7:25 PM

quote:
Yeah, because we all know how well THAT worked in Florida.

Good thing you don't live in Florida, huh?

Yeah, and the alternative is so awesome given how well it's worked all over the US with the new machines, isn't it?.

Post #217764link

boorite
April 7, 2006 7:46 PM

quote:
My passion for government

OH YEAH? WELL GOVERN THIS, BUDDY!

Post #217765link

ivytheplant
April 7, 2006 7:51 PM

quote:
Ever since I turned 18, I have voted almost every two years, and can you guess how many people even remotely close to my age I saw each time? Not many. And as the years go by, I don't see a lot of people younger than I am turning out to vote, and I also don't see a great deal of people my own age taking up the habit out of the blue either.

You must be so proud of yourself.

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boorite
April 7, 2006 7:55 PM

We shouldn't equate voting with caring about public life.

Let's say you're a vegetarian, or even a person who likes food, and you're given a chance to vote on dinner. On the ballot are a Big Mac and a Whopper. So naturally you say fuck it. And then everyone tells you have no right to complain about dinner because you don't even care enough to vote.

That's electoral politics in America.

Post #217769link

Drexle
April 7, 2006 8:16 PM

quote:
quote:
Ever since I turned 18, I have voted almost every two years, and can you guess how many people even remotely close to my age I saw each time? Not many. And as the years go by, I don't see a lot of people younger than I am turning out to vote, and I also don't see a great deal of people my own age taking up the habit out of the blue either.

You must be so proud of yourself.

I'm proud that I don't resort to deflection with insults when I can't put up a real argument, yes.

Post #217770link

Drexle
April 7, 2006 8:17 PM

quote:
We shouldn't equate voting with caring about public life.

Let's say you're a vegetarian, or even a person who likes food, and you're given a chance to vote on dinner. On the ballot are a Big Mac and a Whopper. So naturally you say fuck it. And then everyone tells you have no right to complain about dinner because you don't even care enough to vote.

That's electoral politics in America.



While this is true, it overlooks other options such as voting for third parties or attempting to run for office one's self.

Or even hiking over to the polling office and writing "fuck you all" on the write in slip.

At least that can't be mistaken for apathy.

Post #217771link

boorite
April 7, 2006 8:32 PM

All the hype and fake controversy over "third parties" is hardly worth ridiculing, much less endorsing with a vote. I mean, here's a supposed democracy making a big deal out of a potential third party. Fuck that. There should be a 13th party. Seriously, this is bullshit.

As for "fuck you" write-ins, yeah, done that.

Post #217772link

biped
April 7, 2006 10:45 PM

quote:
Let's say you're a vegetarian, or even a person who likes food, and you're given a chance to vote on dinner. On the ballot are a Big Mac and a Whopper. So naturally you say fuck it. And then everyone tells you have no right to complain about dinner because you don't even care enough to vote.


You're still going to end up eating one or the other. I like mustard better than mayonaisse, so I vote.

Post #217774link

LuckyGuess
April 7, 2006 11:21 PM

I wanted to vote for Whopper, but he was a little wishy-washy on the Ketchup Packet clause.

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boorite
April 8, 2006 12:38 AM

quote:
You're still going to end up eating one or the other.

From a vegetarian's point of view, you're still going to wind up eating a hamburger. A shitty hamburger at that. It's not a choice between "one or the other." It's the one thing-- a shitty hamburger-- no matter what. So who could blame a person for "apathy," given the choices?

It's not that they don't care about food. Quite the opposite.

quote:
I like mustard better than mayonaisse, so I vote.

Yes, exactly-- it's as if we get a choice between a shitty hamburger with mustard and a shitty hamburger with mayonnaise. If you'd rather not have either, then you must not care, and you have no right to complain. Makes sense, right?

Post #217779link

ivytheplant
April 8, 2006 12:38 AM

It's not necessarily apathy because people are inherently apathetic and more interested in whatever new pop icon is running around. Frustration, desperation, and despair feed apathy. Feeling that no matter what you've tried to do to change the system and still see it filled with the same crap every year breeds apathy. Trying to stay afloat long enough for the next paycheck to come while praying there will be no unexpected expense and being too exhausted day in day out that when you come home from work all the energy you have is being able to fall asleep in front of the tv definitely breeds apathy.

Oh sure, you can get an absentee ballot. It's very easy. I mean, that kind of information is just laying around at the local supermarket. Then when you do find the information, it's just a matter of sending them the right identification papers proving you live in whatever state it is you live in. During business hours of course. With any luck, you have a job that gives you time off during business hours. Once everything's on the level, you get to fill it out and mail it to hopefully the right office and hope it actually gets there. And make sure you do this a month in advance so it gets counted.

And when they tell you the morning of election day that it turns out that your absentee ballot doesn't count because your roommates got you kicked out of the address you had in your home state and now you can't vote there. But then they tell you you can't vote in the state you've been temporarily living in because you're not a resident and records show you were only there to temporarily work. You spend all day working out how to vote, while your boss is pissed that you had to take the day off for "something so trivial." You finally get to vote fifteen minutes before the polls close and discover that the one person you could vote for without feeling like a total sleazebag isn't on the ballot, besides being a major player in the elections.

Then you go home and get a call from your mother who says "You can vote for whoever you want this time. Your state is red so it doesn't really matter who you vote for."

That's why I voted for Batman in the last election. There was no one on the fucking ballot that I could vote for without feeling like a cheat. I will not vote for someone that's the proverbial "lesser of two evils" or vote for one that's better than the other but still not someone I'd want in office. Which is why it's disheartening every time a national election rolls around.

Yes, I am complaining. All my fucking life I've been referred to as that younger generation. The apathetic, worthless, selfish bunch of kids who are more interested in the latest movie rather than changing the world. No matter what people of my generation did, no matter how hard they tried to change things, or even if they did change things, they were unworthy of the world. Looked down on and never taken seriously.

So then people get angry and when their turn comes, they say "fuck the old people, and while we're at it, fuck the young people too. What do they know?" And then the whole fucking thing starts over again.

So I did vote in the last election, as I vote in all the fucking elections, down to neighborhood watch. I cared about the local politics, but I had, and still have, a sense of pointlessness whenever I think about national elections. Every time I hear my vote doesn't fucking count because I live in a red state I lose a little bit of caring. Every time someone tells me that because I'm not 30 yet, I'm just a punk kid who doesn't know how the world REALLY works, I just want to give up.

It's not that people don't care about what affects them, it's that they don't know or there's nothing for them either way. Like boorite said, how can you choose between two options you don't believe in? And if you choose a third that you do, it's either a vote that you know will go nowhere or you'll get yelled at by one party for "giving" your vote to the opposing side.

I tell you, I really enjoy being told that I elected Bush because I decided to vote for who I thought was the best candidate.

Now I'm all disjointed in my response. I'll stop now because I'm sure someone will say something akin to a sarcastic "boo hoo we feel so sad for you but blah blah blah you're wrong because of blah blah blah." Or even better, "I have to work my ass off every day and I still manage to fight the system therefore I'm better than you." I get that one a lot. Those are great. Really makes me want to vote for the other side out of spite.

Or not at all. Why bother? Caring didn't work.

Post #217780link

biped
April 8, 2006 2:08 AM

quote:
From a vegetarian's point of view, you're still going to wind up eating a hamburger

But if you don't eat the hamburger, that doesn't mean you're going to get your veggies. And there's still a big difference between a shitty hamburger with mustard and a shitty hamburger with mayonnaise.

Post #217782link

boorite
April 8, 2006 3:22 AM

quote:
quote:
From a vegetarian's point of view, you're still going to wind up eating a hamburger

But if you don't eat the hamburger, that doesn't mean you're going to get your veggies. And there's still a big difference between a shitty hamburger with mustard and a shitty hamburger with mayonnaise.


I feel really inspired to go out and vote now.

Post #217783link

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