A few days ago, I finally wrote a blasphemous strip with the Threereasons Jesus:

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Now I'm wondering if there's anyone who hasn't done one of these by now... and if any of them are funny.

Good one :)

Mate... I am a Christian, and that one made me laugh out loud.

Jesus actually had a brother named James (and probably others - one passage refers to him having "brothers", plural) but my fellow Catholics don't believe in him since his existence kinda clashes with the Church teaching that Mary was a virgin when Jesus was born (as the Bible says) and remained a Virgin for the rest of her life (as some dickhead convinced one of our Popes a few hundred years ago).

As you may have guessed, though I call myself a Catholic, I'm not a very good one.

My very first strip ever.

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And you call yours blasphemous?

Descolada said:
> Dexx, I take it you've seen the movie Dogma? If not, you might enjoy it.
I am sure I would enjoy it, from what I have heard, but I still haven't rented it out.

> I dated an uber-Catholic (9 kids in the family, home schooled, etc) for a year.
I am seven of nine (no Trek jokes, please) but we're not home schooled. I have never heard of the latter being a Catholic habit - here in Oz we all go to Catholic schools. :)

> Not athiest, *agnostic*. The dumb bitch never did realize the difference between the two :)
I know the difference. Arthur the Atheist says, "There is no God, you delusional freaks!" Alex the Agnostic says, "I can't believe something without proof, so don't ask me to believe in an unprovable God." Meanwhile, DexX the Lapsed Catholic says, "Papal infallibility? HA! Read a Bible, you dogma-blinded morons!"

Visiting home and chatting religion with Dad is such fun. He just loves to hear me say that it is more important to be Christian that Catholic...

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Arthur the Atheist says, "There is no God, you delusional freaks!" Alex the Agnostic says, "I can't believe something without proof, so don't ask me to believe in an unprovable God."

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So if a Nun consistently neglects to wash her clothes and is kind of unkept, does she have a bad habit?

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Not athiest, *agnostic*. The dumb bitch never did realize the difference between the two.

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I'm just a pagan heathen. I actually got kicked out of church at the ripe old age of 10 for suggesting that Moses was just a really good salesman, and that it sounded like they were on drugs when all those "visions" occurred.

Well, that and I called the teacher a Klan member for saying my Catholic friends were all drunks because the Priests drank real wine at their Mass. Of course it didn't help that I pointed out that Jesus converted water into wine. (The response..."WELL THAT WAS UNFERMENTED WINE) which then I pointed out that wine is not wine unless it's fermented.

A few deacons calling me demon spawn and trying an intervention with my mother at the house later....

Gee...any wonder..I fell so far from the good grace of the church.

I'm not really sure what I am. I married a Catholic, and in doing so I think I agreed to raise my kids in the Catholic faith. Little did ol' priesty know, but I had my fingers crossed behind my back so it doesn't count.

Seriously, though, religion confuses me. When you boil it right down, all the different religions scattered around the world are really just the same thing, faith. Faith in either tangible things, or things they can't explain or understand. It doesn't matter. And if telling yourself there's a god and a heaven and it helps you get through the day, good for you. And if you think you're going to get reincarnated as a walrus because you stole someone's bike, that's just peachy too.

If only everyone could just believe what they want without having to try to foist it off on other people. I don't care what everyone else thinks. That's what freedom is all about. But when people start laying down the law about things that affect me personally it cheeses me off.

I worked with a guy who was pretty hard core religious, but wasn't too pushy about it. But he enjoyed a good argument now and then. I distinctly remember him once giving me a flyer that laid out why dinosaurs were a load of crap, and how the earlier history of the world never happened. I supposed almighty God just put skeletons everywhere and let us figure out carbon dating just to give us something to do.

I'm not religious, and I'm not much of a scientist either. So I can't spout scientific facts about why dinosaurs are real. But given the choice of one or the other, I'd have to go with the scientists.

To each his own. And donkey rapes for everyone that thinks otherwise.

I think my personal works fine for me. I Loved Dogma because it quoted a lot of things that I sort of can relate.

Most of my system now are just major amounts of randomness that make sense to me. Do I believe in something greater than we pitiful humans? Yes. Does this pitiful human presume to say that I know what it wants or expects? No.

I sorta have this theory...Everything has it's basis in storytelling. And as we all know, storytellers are very creative people. Skewing the actual events for a better "sell." SO, to take everything verbatim and miss the overall message is where we get so whacked.

The Ancients worshipped Gods/Goddesses for practically everything. I see old Menelaus in his backyard throwing goats on the altar and getting quite grumpy because he had to do this yesterday with a dozen cats. He looks over the fence to his neighbor Aneas' house and notices that he's living very well and not making any sacrifices. So he asks about it. Aneas' explains "why should I worship all these separate Gods individually, when I can just do this once in a while to the head cheese? The results are the same."

Menelaus thinks about it....tries it, doesn't get struck down by lightening or a naked cherub. And boom...polytheism to monotheism begins.

Of course that's just the tip of my theory, but....I think it all boils down to just being a decent freaking person and using common sense. But there are very few of us left.

Frankly, the more I do read the bible, the less I believe it's right. It's so contradictory, especially when it comes to ideals of a perfect god and such. I dont get into it, as DexX almost ripped my throat out over ICQ on this subject. I do not believe most of the bible is true, however, that doesn't mean I have to believe in no god, or a pagan god. I believe in a god of some sort, and an afterlife.

You'll always have poor people, but I am only here for a short time.

Don't forget to be good to squirrels.
Frankly, I subscribe to the theory that if you are good to people, and good to yourself, and just enjoy your time here, you won't feel eternally guilty in any afterlife.

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Jesus actually had a brother named James (and probably others - one passage refers to him having "brothers", plural) but my fellow Catholics don't believe in him since his existence kinda clashes with the Church teaching that Mary was a virgin when Jesus was born (as the Bible says) and remained a Virgin for the rest of her life.

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Yeah, that's pretty much where I got the idea for mine... I had heard that some people believe that Jesus had brothers/sisters... and I realized how much it would suck to be one of them. I mean, if there's anyone you just can't live up to, it's him. "I got a raise at Denny's!" "Your brother walked on water today." "DAMMIT!"

And I call him Bob because of that song, 'Jesus' brother Bob.' It was either by the Arrogant Worms, or Tracy and the Hindenburg Ground Crew...

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I'm so glad y'all ended the political discussion. This is much better. ;P

I usually avoid using the Jesus icon because it's just too easy to make jokes (Jesus says "fuck" a lot and talks about sucking dick... harhar I haven't seen that 8 million times before), and therefore less funny. But I also have succumbed to using the icon twice. And now, given the opportunity, I intend to inflict my comics upon you.

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And my only other one...

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I couldn't resist... I also had to do the pedophilic priest bit once. Forgive me.

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My mother was a Jehovah's Witness and my father was an atheist. It's true. Mike "Mad Dog" Adams even wrote a joke about it.

"My mother was a Jehovah's Witness, and my father was an atheist. They used to go door to door for no damn reason at all."

Love,

bunner

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If only everyone could just believe what they want without having to try to foist it off on other people.

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I believe that there is a God for a very simple reason:

This planet, galaxy, solar system, universe.... from the molecules in water to the Milky Way reeks of engineering. REEKS of it. If this place happened by accident, I would be hell of lot more impressed than I am with the notion that a creative force beyond the grasp of people -who up until very recently thought caves and fire were terribly high tech- is somehow inherently silly. Somebody, something, built this. And the engineering is absolutely, jaw-droppingly, breathtakingly brilliant. I think the scientific community, as beneficial as they are to mankind, are a bit jealous.

Religion, on the other hand, from what I can tell empirically, is pretty much confined to hoax governemnts, shysters, chislers, strongarm tactics, Ponzi schemes, hucksters, thieves, megalomaniacs, weasels, and hypocrites.

The scientific community will agree to any wild notion, (little green men, spaceships, an inexplicable explosion which vomited forth the universe....)which discredit the idea of God, even as a consummate engineer or force thereof.

Meantime, badly be-wigged shuck and jive artists, charlatans in pointy hats, highbinders with collection plates, and those of their ilk, will pump forth any preposterous, and rigid ideology that dis-credits science and fills thier coffers with $50.00's and widow's pensions.

Somewhere in the middle of any two extremes often lies the truth.

Love,

bunner

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Somewhere in the middle of any two extremes often lies the truth.

Love,

bunner

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*heavy sigh*

The Bible's nowhere near as contradictory as many people claim. Besides, the Old Testament is pretty much worthless these days. Jesus himself basically said that anything he taught overrode the Law of Moses. Before the arrival of the Messiah, people tried to save themselves by sticking to The Law, but nobody can ever be perfect. The whole point of Jesus coming to Earth was to say, "Don't worry about it guys - follow the rules as best you can, but if you make a mess of it you can fall back on me."

One of the things about the Catholic Church that bugs me more than anything is that I didn't find out until I was an adult (from a Baptist) exactly why Jesus came to Earth, why He died, and exactly what we got out of the whole thing. It is all elegantly simple, but I fear that most Catholics just don't get it, because no-one has ever explained it to them properly.

I am annoyed by other things in the Church, especially the veneration of Saints (they're just people, not Gods! If you want to pray, pray to GOD!!!) and other bullshit that contradicts teachings in the Bible. Jesus said, "You don't need to pray to anyone else, just pray to me or God." The Church says, "Pray to Mary, pray to Saint Ralph of Whyalla K-Mart...". That shits me greatly.

But I must not rant...

I say worship whatever you see fit.
I worship no one.
I really don't worship a God who would punish me for the sins done by someone he created.
I just live, and be happy as possible.

The Bible's nowhere near as contradictory as many people claim. Besides, the Old Testament is pretty much worthless these days. Jesus himself basically said that anything he taught overrode the Law of Moses.

Actually, he said that he wasn't overriding the previous teaching, only completing it. He wasn't abolishing the old testament, as many modern christians like to think in order to disavow some apparent contradictions.

There are many arguments people can make for a god. Creation indicating a creator, as bunnerabb said is one. The old anecdote was that someone doesn't stumble upon a watch lying in the forest and think, "Wow, this watch came out of the ground." Instead they think the complexity of the watch indicates a craftsman, a creator. A good argument, but there are good arguments against it.

First cause is the strongest argument for a god in my opinion. Evolution says that everything comes from something. If you trace this back far enough, you'll encounter a first. Where did that first come from? The big bang? Where did that come from? A strong argument, but there are strong arguments against it.

But I'm not gonna give them. Pythagoras once said something like, "If there's no god and you believe in one, then you're no worse off than if you didn't. However, if there's a god and you believe in him, you're saved. If there's a god and you don't believe in him, you're screwed. So the thinking man should believe in god." I haven't taken this advice, but it has influenced me never to try to convince others there is no god. In fact it was one of the saddest days in my life when I stopped believing in god. But, alas, the world still spins...

Yknow, anyone who really follows the tenets of their religion is going to act like a decent person, which is good enough for me.

Anyway, something from earlier in this thread gave me an idea for another comic in this series, so here are words that will be never spoken again in the history of the universe: "DexX, you inspired me."

http://www.stripcreator.com/view.php?ID=13591
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I find that religion brings to mind an awful lot of thought, but it's difficult to get it written down. It doesn't tend to come out in one clear, coherent chunk, and I end up writing reams of seemingly randomly connected points. Then I get frustrated and delete it all.

But I'm gonna try anyway. The piece I just wrote and then chucked was questioning the idea of being 'saved'. I was bothered by something (Remember that I'm not professing any great knowledge of the subject. Everything I've learned has been from bits and pieces I've gotten here and there rather than anything formal like Sunday school or the like.)

If I understand correctly, a person could spend the better part of their life being bad. Beating up kids in the playground, stealing their lunch money, kicking dogs, tearing tags off of mattresses, beating their wife, stealing, lying, cheating, murdering, etc. etc. Then somewhere down the road they could realize they've been a complete shit and find religion. After admitting what a bastard they were early in life, they can be cleansed of their sins, allowing them a sure spot in Heaven for all eternity. (Am I near the mark, or am I talking out my ass?)

What bother me was that I'm on the far other side of the coin. I try to be a generally nice person. I stop and let people merge in traffic. I hold doors open for people. I volunteer. I don't beat my wife (except in self defense). I'd like to think that when I'm gone, I will have made a positive impact (however minor) on some people. But I'm just not religious. So while Mr. Joe Nasty above spends forever sipping daquiris somewhere, I'm gonna be what... slaving away in Hell? Reincarnated as a stink beetle? Snuffed away into nothingness? What?

Then I had an epiphany. I was getting annoyed over the fact that I wasn't going to be going somewhere I didn't believe in anyway. So what's the point?

There have to be other people that feel the same as me. And there have to be some people that are going to church 'just to be sure'. They're hedging their bets. They're really not too sure about this whole God/afterlife thing, but they'd better get some insurance just to be on the safe side.

So does God know? Can he pick out the weasels who are just scared they _might_ go to Hell? What happens to them?

So what if all the hoo-doo about religion isn't just hoo-doo? And despite the fact that I didn't really believe in Hell I'm going there anyway. Am I stuck there forever?

And if there really is a God, why doesn't he (she?) give us some good, tangible evidence that he exists. And I don't mean some faintly Jesus-shaped mold growing on the side of the fridge in Esther William's house in Muncie, Indiana, as seen in the National Enquirer. Why doesn't he come down and hold a press conference covered by all the major networks. "I'm real folks. It's not just bullshit. So y'all better stop 'yer sinnin'."

Or is that not the way that God works? Faith just wouldn't be faith if we all knew for sure that God was real. We have to believe for it to work. And don't tell me that the Bible says it's so. How can I believe the Bible? I don't know where it came from. For all I know it was thrown together by some pranksters a few thousand years ago. My sister and her husband, both intelligent, college-educated adults, firmly believe that the moon landing was a hoax. And I'm supposed to put my faith in the Bible.

Whatever happened to good old fashioned Greek and Roman dieties? When they got pissed off they'd come right on down to mortal-world and bitch slap you. Now that's some religion I can take to heart!

So I end my thoughts by remaining thoroughly confused. With the plethora of religions around the world today, how can they all be right? Does each believe that their particular religion is the only _true_ religion, and everyone else is just plain stupid? I revert to my previous beliefs that they are all right. Each and every person's personal faith is the true religion.

So I'm going to just keep on being a good person, and try to live a good life, and not worry too much about what everyone else thinks about me or themselves. And if there really is a heaven and I miss out for not believing, then too bad for me. I don't feel so bad, due to the fact that virtually everyone in this world I really care about has the same views as me. So at least if we do end up somewhere, we'll be there together.

That's it. Done with my mental spewing. I apoligize for any spelling or grammar mistakes. (Too hard to proofread when you're on a roll.)

This shit is getting heavy. I like it.

NeoVid said:

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Yknow, anyone who really follows the tenets of their religion is going to act like a decent person, which is good enough for me.

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And if there really is a God, why doesn't he (she?) give us some good, tangible evidence that he exists.

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Here's a story I heard once which you may like.... or you may think is bullshit, but whatever...

A bloke who was good all his life died and found himself outside the Pearly Gates. Smiling broadly, he strode proudly up to the gates and was preparing to push them open when he heard someone beside him clear his throat. He looked over to see Saint Peter sitting at a large ornate desk with a huge book open in front of him.

"Where do you think you're going?" Peter asked.

"To my eternal reward," the bloke answered. "Where else?"

"Not so fast, mate," Peter replied. "We recently switched over to a points system. If you scored a thousand points in your life, you get in."

The bloke was confident, and started counting his good deeds out on his fingers. "I attended Mass, not only every Sunday, but at least once on a weekday every week. I never had sex beforee I was married, and once I was married I never even thought about extra-marital affairs. I raised all of my children to be good Christians, and ensured that they brought their children up the same way. For my whole working life, half of my income went to charity, and after my retirement I continued to work full-time hours in charity organisations. How's that?"

Peter scratched a few marks in his book. "Very good," he said, finally. "That's one point."

The bloke fell to his knees, aghast. He began to cry, and said, "Then I cannot get in. My own actions just aren't enough. Nobody could ever earn a place in Heaven without the help of Jesus."

"Aaaah," sighed Peter happily. "Well done, you just earned your extra points. Go on in."

The moral of the story is that everyone makes mistakes, everyone acts selfishly sometimes, even though most of us try to be good people. The good intentions of people aren't enough - you need faith.

Yes, that means that a lifelong scumbag could conceivably renounce his bad life on his deathbed and be saved, but really, how likely is that? A deathbed confession born from selfishness and fear isn't really what I would call putting your faith in Jesus.

Despite all the rules, rituals, and smoke and mirrors, the only thing salvation requires is for somebody to say, sincerely, "Jesus, if you're there... I can't do this. I try to do the right thing, but I mess it up sometimes. I can't earn salvation on my own, and I need your help. If there really is a Heaven, please overlook my mistakes and let me in."

That's it. Seriously!

I just finished reading Orson Scott Card's Speaker for the Dead, and this discussion made me think of a passage out of it. Forgive any odd spelling mistakes, I scanned it and used OCR.

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A great rabbi stands teaching in the marketplace. It happens that a husband finds proof that morning of his wife's adultery, and a mob carries her to the marketplace to stone her to death. (There is a familiar version of this story, but a friend of mine, a Speaker for the Dead, has told me of two other rabbis that faced the same situation. Those are the ones I'm going to tell you.)
The rabbi walks forward and stands beside the woman. Out of respect for him the mob forbears, and waits with the stones heavy in their hands, "Is there anyone here," he says to them, "who has not desired another man's wife, another woman's husband?"
They murmur and say, "We all know the desire. But, Rabbi, none of us has acted on it"
The rabbi says, "Then kneel down and give thanks that God made you strong." He takes the woman by the
hand and leads her out of the market. Just before he lets her go, he whispers to her, 'Tell the lord magistrate who saved his mistress. Then he'll know I am his loyal servant."
So the woman lives, because the community is too corrupt to protect itself from disorder.
Another rabbi, another city. He goes to her and stops the mob, as in the other story, and says, "Which of you is without sin? Let him cast the first stone." The people are abashed, and they forget their unity of purpose in the memory of their own individual sins. Someday, they think, I may be like this woman, and I'll hope for forgiveness and another chance. I should treat her the way I wish to be treated. As they open their hands and let the stones fall to the ground, the rabbi picks up one of the fallen stones, lofts it high over the woman's head, and throws it straight down with all his might. It crushes her skull and dashes her brains onto the cobblestones.
"Nor am I without sin." he says to the people. "But if we allow only perfect people to enforce the law, the law will soon be dead, and our city with it."
So the woman died because her community was too rigid to endure her deviance. The famous version of this story is noteworthy because it is so startlingly rare in our experience. Most communities lurch between decay and rigor mortis, and when they veer too far, they die. Only one rabbi dared to expect of us such a perfect balance that we could preserve the law and still forgive the deviation. So, of course, we killed him.

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The scientific community will agree to any wild notion, (little green men, spaceships, an inexplicable explosion which vomited forth the universe....)which discredit the idea of God, even as a consummate engineer or force thereof.

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I'd have to agree. Scientists are basically in pursuit of two things: truth and advancement of the species. They generally don't have an agenda other than the pursuit of truth and, ok, getting the best research grant that they can so they can afford the new lexus. Of course there are exceptions, and it's ALWAYS crazy to speak in absolutes. All scientists aren't anti-religion any more than all christian fundamentalists are anti-reason. Though, I know how tempting the anti-reason platorm is. God, how I hate rhetoric.

The fundies who oppose the teaching of evolution in schools are anti-reason. I was not talking about all christian fundamentalists. Most of them are pretty much harmless, in my opinion.

I am aware of scientific approach, discipline, methodologies, and reason. I applaud them all. They are the reason that we have come to understand the notion of engineering as an objective approach and discipline. However, the representations of scientific work are often not given to the public at large in a fashion that the layman can readily comprehend as factual research with tangible meaning. Ergo, Hollywood, television, etc... portrays the mish-mosh of science and research with a dollop of Disney as the state of the art in the scientific camp, and that is not only by and large what the average Joe sees, but if asked to subscribe to the fictionalised and romanticised notions of science -vis-a-vis film, literature, and whimsey- or the romantic notions of a God or a universally central omniscient being, most scientists, the Muslims and Christians, atheists etc... will gladly subscribe to the former. Science fiction has aided and abetted science fact handily. Our dreams are becoming more attainable through research as science marches on. That, however, does not discredit the fact that a basically identical belief system with slightly different wording has been in effect on this planet since the beginning of recorded human history. Most buncombe disappears much more quickly. There is something to be said for both camps, but neither will readily admit to that. That was the basis of my admittedly broad statement.

Thank you,

bunner

The fundies who oppose the teaching of evolution in schools are anti-reason. What's more anti-reason: not wanting the theory of evolution taught, or outlawing non-compelled school prayer? I think they're both fucked up. But, if the big bang is taught then creationism should be too. Not a religion-specific creationism, but just the general thought. Since science has absolutely no idea what went on in those first milliseconds, schools should introduce all possibilities. And few could argue that a non religion-specific creationism breeches church and state.

I don't think those who are christian fundamentalists are anti-reason though. In fact, they are pro-reason. They are the only christians who truly listen to what the bible says and go with it. Of course the fact that I think they're frickin bonkers makes no difference. Better than the christians who try to fit the facts to their liking. I say: There's the bible, read it. If you agree with it, become a "fundamentalist," if you don't, then become a buddhist, muslim, atheist, whatever. But for the love of GOD, stay out of Idaho. There's bad things in Idaho.

That, however, does not discredit the fact that a basically identical belief system with slightly different wording has been in effect on this planet since the beginning of recorded human history. How do you figure? When I was taking a mythology class a couple of years back, we studied many religious cultures. They were as different as different can be. With one similiarity: just about all religions in the history of man have taught an afterlife. Which could be an indication of why man created religion. So he didn't have to face his own mortality.

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But for the love of GOD, stay out of Idaho. There's bad things in Idaho.

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What's more anti-reason: not wanting the theory of evolution taught, or outlawing non-compelled school prayer?

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The Big Bang theory comes from drawing out the vectors (direction and velocity) of galaxies and finding that all galaxies came from the point of origin.

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...but if asked to subscribe to the fictionalised and romanticised notions of science -vis-a-vis film, literature, and whimsey- or the romantic notions of a God or a universally central omniscient being, most scientists, the Muslims and Christians, atheists etc... will gladly subscribe to the former.

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Oh, and Gabe is a holejacker.

And what does god have to do with sci-fi? Welcome to the fuck off, huge, bleeding dichotomy. Please have your ID, passport, and ideology ready.

bunner

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I don't think anybody is trying to outlaw non-compelled school prayer in general. Any student is free to pray on their own in school. What the ACLU and individual students have taken issue with is organized prayer during classes.

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There are very bloody few things which really amount to fuck all on this mortal coil.

Nobody's shooting film. Believe what you believe because you believe it.

Don't subscribe to ideologies that you do not understand to appease people that you rely upon for love, approval, or acceptance. It will bite you in the ass.

Do not divorce yourself from the things that you do believe in for the same, or any other reason.

Learn.

Read.

Believe in your heart and it's natural inclinations AFTER you have refined it's appetites and learned to dismiss it's treachery.

Teach.

Care.

Play fair.

Hold hands.

Wear glasses if you need them.

Love,

bunner

What about the sunscreen?