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Stripcreator » Fights Go Here » Yes, It Was I Who Mentioned Gay Marriage

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Drexle
Your Cure for Lameness

Member Rated:

If I'm defending Heinleineans, then I'm unaware of it, being that I'm not familiar with Heinleineanism. I'm just seriously questioning why the number two is so special or significant aside from making a baby... yet another thing which I think should not be a necissary component or requirement of "love" any more than a church's blessing or a governmental contract.

2-26-04 8:37am (new)
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MikeyG
Shoots the shit and often misses

Member Rated:

I think Kaufmeister was talking about good ol' sci-fi maestro Robert E. Heinlein. I also think he was jesting. I could be wrong, seeing as how in order to align your brain wavelengths to kaufman's you'd have to snort powdered moustache, but I hope I get him as much as I'd like to.

Anyway, in regards to the gay marriage argument, it can be summed up right here:

Allowing gay MARRIAGE does not mean that Catholic, Christian Churches, Synagogues, or whoever have to allow them in their place of worship. It is not infringing upon the RIGHTS of anyone to allow gay people to have every RIGHT of normal people, which is that they should be allowed to celebrate a government-recognized union like everyone else. No one's rights are being destroyed by allowing this.

Perhaps people's IDEALS are being hurt by this, but last I heard, it wasn't the government's job to uphold the IDEALS of anyone. It is the government's job to uphold the RIGHTS of people, and that is the only way to look at it. Why cater to one group's ideals and not another? Because people can believe what they want to believe and have it apply to them and theirs. The moment you start writing laws dictating what people can and can't do in regards to non-criminal actions, authoritarianism and totalitarianism take hold.

---
The giant three-phallused phallus of Uzbekistan will one day squirt the cosmic jizz of revenge all over Canada.

2-26-04 9:07am (new)
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Drexle
Your Cure for Lameness

Member Rated:

quote:
I think Kaufmeister was talking about good ol' sci-fi maestro Robert E. Heinlein.

I also think he was jesting. I could be wrong, seeing as how in order to align your brain wavelengths to kaufman's you'd have to snort powdered moustache, but I hope I get him as much as I'd like to.


Yeah, I know who he was refering to, but not the reason(s) why. Doesn't mean he couldn't have been serious, though. There could be a whole group of cult philosophers out there who live by his every word for all I know, hence my response.

quote:

Anyway, in regards to the gay marriage argument, it can be summed up right here:

Totally agreed.

2-26-04 9:39am (new)
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kaufman
Director of Cats

Member Rated:

Nah, I was just referring to the fact that R.A.H.'s novels often had non-traditional marriages that were generally treated in matter-of-fact, nothing-to-look-at-here ways. 4 men, 1 woman, 2 men, 2 women, whatever.

---
ken.kaufman@gmail.com

2-26-04 10:08am (new)
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MikeyG
Shoots the shit and often misses

Member Rated:

Yah, dats what I meant. I alzo meant to zay A. Heinlein, not E. Heinlein. Strangely enough, out of all the Heinlein I've hoovered into my brain, I never read Stranger in a Strange Land. My favorite, though, is Glory Road. I loved the idea of an ad in the paper for a hero.

---
The giant three-phallused phallus of Uzbekistan will one day squirt the cosmic jizz of revenge all over Canada.

2-26-04 10:16am (new)
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andydougan
Film critic subordinaire

Member Rated:

Isn't "til death do us part" bad grammar?

2-26-04 12:18pm (new)
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MikeyG
Shoots the shit and often misses

Member Rated:

'No, Dougan loves it in da butt' is bad grammar.

---
The giant three-phallused phallus of Uzbekistan will one day squirt the cosmic jizz of revenge all over Canada.

2-26-04 12:20pm (new)
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andydougan
Film critic subordinaire

Member Rated:

But oh so true.

2-26-04 12:23pm (new)
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PhreakyChinchilla
DANGER WILL ROBINSON!

Member Rated:

It's also bad manners.

---
dcomposed:11-06-05: If I was a viking invading your village, you'd be the first to get raped.
Crabby: 10/5/06: i would love to feed you fresh fruit while bathing you.

2-26-04 3:51pm (new)
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DragonXero
I'm Here, You're Queer, Get Used to it

Member Rated:

When it all comes down to it, my arguments on the subject are purely devil's advocate material. I could really care less what people do in the privacy of their own homes. The only thing that bothers me is the outrage being put forth by both sides of this argument, and how stupid it all sounds to me.

"Husband and Wife" is a weird term, and I would be hard pressed to keep a straight face when two people of the same gender use it to describe themselves. Not because it sounds ludicrous to me, but because it's clinging onto old traditions that most of the same people argue against.

The gay marriages in SF bug me because likely most of them will end up in divorce. They were mostly "spur of the moment" things, from what I've been able to hear.

As for the question of gay couples, I've known gay couples, yes. I've never known any that lasted, however. This doesn't mean I believe they can't last, it's merely an aside to say that no, I've never met a truly loving gay couple. I'm truly sorry I don't actively seek that out.

The ammendment bugs me because it's just stupid. It's like the bizzarro world version of giving women the vote. I do not think it should be put in place, I was never truly arguing for that.

Religion is fine. Organized religion is a little scary at times. Religious fanatacism is just plain bad times. That being said, why is it so wrong to let people "marry" in a garden with a wiccan... er, whatever? It's not "true" marriage as the Christians, Muslims, and Jews see it, but it's still a legal one.

As for "well, two isn't working!" I think the logic is a little messed up there, Drex. Two worked just fine for a long time, and it certainly worked for me. The problem isn't that two doesn't work, it's that nothing works. Parents are so censored and restrained these days that no matter what you try, it's not going to work. Just about any form of discipline is illegal now, responsibility has been removed (let's just sit Timmy down in front of the computer to entertain himself, then bitch when he stumbles upon a site we don't agree with), and people are getting increasingly lazy with their kids. We all rely on people who have no experience to teach us what we need to know, and anyone who has any amount of logic in his or her head will tell you that just doesn't work.

What it all boils down to is that I don't see the big deal. Why do we need a ceremony to acquire a title? Why do we need titles to get tax breaks? Why do we even need a loving relationship for these tax breaks? The whole reasoning behind giving married couples tax breaks was not because God is all cool with it, it's logical. You have two people with a kid, and only one of them works. That one person is supporting two others on probably the same wage/salary as a single person with the same job. Now, yes, this is his/her choice, but why should this person suffer because he/she wants to raise a child and have a family? I think this is truly one of our essential, probably unwritten rights.

Sorry if I have offended anyone with any of my statements, but they are simply my opinions, which are apparently not shared by many people here, if any.

---
Do you want ants? Because that's how you get ants.

2-26-04 6:36pm (new)
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AccentuateNegative
Your Gay

Member Rated:

One of my co-workers has been with his partner for 14 years. A former co-worker recently adopted a baby with his partner--I don't know how long they've been together, but I've known the former co-worker for 7 years and they've been together at least that long. A good friend of mine is a lesbian who has been with her partner for 8 years and they're the sweetest couple I know.

I could go on, but I just wanted to point out that there are truly loving gay couples out there, you just have to get to know them to find out the details. Usually the giveaway is the wedding ring.

Of course, I know my share of gay sluts too, but that happens in the straight world as well.

2-26-04 10:59pm (new)
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DragonXero
I'm Here, You're Queer, Get Used to it

Member Rated:

I was wondering if you'd ever put your $0.02 in! I was kind hopin to hear from someone who could actually be affected by this ordeal, rather than a bunch of straight white men with little or no real experience in the issue. Though I don't really blame you, your input is less personal than I'd expected (and hoped for). Anyway, I wasn't stating that I didn't believe they were there, I was simply stating that I'd had no personal experience.

Anyway, as I think I've said, I'm not totally opposed to the idea of gay marriage (though I think the whole idea is silly). I'm just a little confused in multiple areas. Why now? Why is marriage such a big deal when a common goal (equal civil unions) is more important (in my mind)? Why in stereotypical San Francisco? Why make it such a big deal? How many people just got married because it was there, and not because it meant something more special than "well, it's a breakthrough in rights!" I'd think this would be far too special to jump into, personally.

---
Do you want ants? Because that's how you get ants.

2-27-04 1:19am (new)
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DragonXero
I'm Here, You're Queer, Get Used to it

Member Rated:

As an addendum, I will concede that I've never had a lasting relationship, so I'll let you guys chew on that one for a while.

I'm far from closed-minded. I've felt the draw of.. alternative lifestyles, but decided it wasn't for me.

Anyway, ball's in your court, guys.

---
Do you want ants? Because that's how you get ants.

2-27-04 1:22am (new)
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fuzzyman
Alpha Geek

Member Rated:

I'm still waiting for them to legalize polyamorous interspecies relationships. Only then can the Furry Mormons be free.

---
...Trot and Cap'n Bill were free from anxiety and care. Button-Bright never worried about anything. The Scarecrow, not being able to sleep, looked out of the window and tried to count the stars.

2-27-04 4:08am (new)
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attitudechicka
is never bored.

Member Rated:

Personally, when I get married, I'm not going to shout "Whoo-hoo, tax breaks!" I would be concerned, however, about if an accident happened and whether or not I was allowed to see my husband. Maybe not at that moment, but if said accident happened and they denied me of that. That's where I stand as a heterosexual.

As far as "Why now?" It's been building for a long time, this isn't a new issue, it's just becoming more political now. Massachussets started it, and the entire country freaked out. That's why it's suddenly in the news and everywhere. I'm not political, so I'm going to leave the rest of this subject to someone else.

Also, fuzzyman, did you know if your furry mormans wear crosses, they'll burn in hell? I once went to a morman church wearing cross earings, and was told that I will live in eternal damnation. All that to impress a boy... *sigh*

---
Mediocrity at its most average.

2-27-04 7:17am (new)
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fuzzyman
Alpha Geek

Member Rated:


Wow, so much for the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints. On the other hand, I've known Protestant demoninations to have problems with crucifixes because it reminds them of Catholocism and "idol-worship."

Didn't your mother tell you never to date an Osmond?

You'll have to elaborate on that Mormon church experience. I've always wondered what goes on in there.

---
...Trot and Cap'n Bill were free from anxiety and care. Button-Bright never worried about anything. The Scarecrow, not being able to sleep, looked out of the window and tried to count the stars.

2-27-04 10:16am (new)
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MikeyG
Shoots the shit and often misses

Member Rated:

quote:
As an addendum, I will concede that I've never had a lasting relationship, so I'll let you guys chew on that one for a while.

I'm far from closed-minded. I've felt the draw of.. alternative lifestyles, but decided it wasn't for me.

Anyway, ball's in your court, guys.


Never had a lasting relationship? I guess what we had was fleeting? You bastard! Give me all my stuff back! It's sooooo over!

---
The giant three-phallused phallus of Uzbekistan will one day squirt the cosmic jizz of revenge all over Canada.

2-27-04 10:30am (new)
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nicejohnson
Stripcreator Regular

Member Rated:

Er, while I can't compare to the well thought out arguments of most of the people in the thread, I will say that Bush sucks because he is such a control freak. YOU AREN'T GOD, PAL!

---
You know you totally missed me!

2-27-04 10:41am (new)
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jes_lawson
I don't know what I'm doing either

Member Rated:

Like all issues, everything's easily solved with monkeys:

http://www.achewood.com/dat/comic/02272004.gif

---
Please replace the handset, and try again.

2-27-04 4:07pm (new)
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AccentuateNegative
Your Gay

Member Rated:

Actually, DX, I responded on the first page of this thread as well.

2-27-04 10:39pm (new)
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graykane
as if i knew what i was talking about

Member Rated:

by the way, 26yr old Mayor John West of New Paltz, NY is now allowing gay marriages in his small town-- the newest uproar in this new what's-going-to-amount-to-the-next-abortion-in-almost-all-future-elections issue. he says that the same people who prevent gay marriages are the same people who would have had rosa parks sit her black ass back down on the bus.

without choosing sides (in this post), i just want to say that all of you who are younger than mayor john west of new paltz, NY have a moral responsibility to do at least as much with your lives as he by that age. otherwise, you're a loser forever like me. *demonic laugh* hahahahhaha.

---
i want to piss on you

2-27-04 10:44pm (new)
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Trippingbillee
Playmate of the apes.

Member Rated:

Drex-
I probably misinterpreted you a bit. My argument is only that until marriage is totally disconnected from any law (only "civil unions" remain), denying gay marriage isn't gonna help us to get there.

I agree that it should be a totally social thing and not in any way tied to the government.

---
Sex Piano.

2-28-04 1:15am (new)
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DragonXero
I'm Here, You're Queer, Get Used to it

Member Rated:

Actually, DX, I responded on the first page of this thread as well.


Whoops. Sorry. :)

---
Do you want ants? Because that's how you get ants.

2-28-04 3:33am (new)
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attitudechicka
is never bored.

Member Rated:

quote:

You'll have to elaborate on that Mormon church experience. I've always wondered what goes on in there.

I cried a lot. Went home early. The temple thing was huge, though.

I also understand, from the same guy, that Mormons believe that they are also married to their partners into the afterlife, and that God sent blacks as slaves. (The blacks topic is covered several times in the Book of Mormon--with pictures!)

---
Mediocrity at its most average.

2-28-04 8:46am (new)
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choadwarrior
Crash Magnet

Member Rated:

BTW, Jes, you understand the US Constitution better than most citizens.

A few thoughts on the US Constitution...over 14,000 ammendments have been proposed in our history, but only 27 have been successful. In light of that, I don't think this proposed ammendment has much of a chance. Anyone remember the flag-burning ammendment that was expected to pass so easily a decade ago? Me neither--it never made it out of Congress.

The last big gay-rights victory in the Supreme Court (where this will ultimately be decided) was partly based on the 14th Ammendment, which contains the "equal protection" clause. While this ammendment was passed to make former slaves citizens, it has the effect of making laws that deny one class of citizens rights afforded to others unconstitutional.

"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

I would expect those justices who based their decision in the Texas anti-sodomy law case (which applied only to homosexuals) to follow the same logic.

2-28-04 11:03am (new)
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