Stripcreator needs to be free.  The site should generate revenue through ads not random donations.  With sites like Digg, Fark, and other social networks out there Stripcreator should be able to generate tons of traffic.  The problem is that people like to be able to vote and do all the things that can only be unlocked if you make a donation. This drives customers away and in the long run is going to hurt this site. 

I want to put special emphasis on the voting aspect. The type of people who are going to drive traffic to this site thrive on voting and having their opinion heard. I love this site but it seems like there are only a few people making quality stuff and I believe that the number of quality submissions will increase if Stripcreator is freed.  Combined with an open voting system we should see an explosion of creativity and quality comics flooding the site.

I of course understand that along with all the good there will be ten times as much crap floating around.  Hopefully an open voting system will go a long way towards hiding the crap.

Let me hear what you think!

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Oxymoronic or not. Make Stripcreator Donation Free!

I think the voting system you hold so dear would be seriously put in jeopardy if it were free. It would become an abused system where every troll would roll through and begin to down vote everything to the point where the voting would matter even less than it does now. Having people donate before they vote shows that they have a commitement to at least trying to be a member of the community. It's like a moose lodge, you gotta pay your dues or else theres no orange soda at the snack table.

Okay... first things first...

"Make Stripcreator Donation Free!" OXYMORON!!!!!!!! Seriously. If you were going to title it, say "No more donations" or "Make Stripcreator Free" or something to that extent. For serious.

Secondly, I agree with crabby. If the site had all priviledges open to everyone, Brad would probably end up shutting it down within a matter of weeks. Have you seen some of the content the non-donors make? We're lucky that they can't vote.

I'm still not 100% a fan of having all the forums open to every user. I liked it when users had to be invited to join the forums. It let the mods and brad have a little more control over the content.

As well, a donation can be any amount of money. If you're that much of a cheapskate and can't afford to donate $1 to a guy running a popular website, then maybe you should reconsider having joined. We donate because we appreciate the work that brad puts into this site, and because we want to support him (and his bitchin' music career).

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Okay, Lindsay, are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist.

I feel like making a donation is like saying to brad, the creator of this fine website, "hey, thanks for going through all this trouble of paying for this website to exist so that I can play around with clip art characters and pass judgement on every person I've ever met - in comic form!"

The ads, from what I understand, do not generate that much revenue. And, in order for them to do so, I'm pretty sure that there would have to be a lot more, which is really distracting and tacky. I hate seeing ads or accidentally clicking on them on other sites. I'm glad that I don't have to see the ads now, actually, since brad decided to delete them for donors. I'm sorry you can't appriciate a nice, clean layout design with no ads.

As for non-donor features, I think being able to make a comic strip for free as well as being able to take part in the stripcreator community are great "free" features. It's like a non-limited trial period. If the beginner users is pleased with the "trial", they have the option to donate money in exchange for exploring the additional features that the website has to offer. 

Brad personally fixes issues with the website and the comic generator. I'd say that is well worth a few bucks from me. I mean, you pay for any other type of maintence, don't you? If your air conditioner breaks down, you would have someone come out on a service call to tinker with it for $50/hr until it works properly again. Brad doesn't even tell you how much to pay him.

I agree with crabby. The voting system would lose a lot of its credibility if anyone were allowed to vote. Fly-by-night users might come here, vote every strip they see "bad" and never return. Or one single person might sign up with every email address they have (and create some more) just for the purpose of voting for their comics or someone else's - in an effort to boost themselves or to unpopularize another user or users.

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Mediocrity at its most average.

Wow! I find it hysterical that you guys actually think the voting system could get worse! This doomsday scenario of trolls coming and downvoting everything is totally absurd. Even if it did happen it would have NO EFFECT becuase, as you said, they would down vote EVERYTHING.  Net effect = zero.

 I also find it strange that you think that there aren't already people doing this exact thing. The few people who donate have a vested interest in seeing there stuff make it to the front page. And since there are so few people who can vote they down vote everything BUT there stuff which DOES have a negative impact on the site. This problem is magnifyed by the small voting community and would be greatly diminished if voting only required an account rather than a donation. Trolls are a small minority while the normal , good natured voters are generally in the majority.

It is also worth pointing out that even if the site did not require donations that there would be nothing stoping any of you from making a donation.  If you love the site so much that you feel inclined to make a donation DO IT!

 My point is still this. Making the voting system more like a digg or reddit system would make the site better. I understand that it would not make the site perfect. There will always be problems with any type of voting system. It's just that the system we currently have stifles creativity and encourages foul play.

I'm a donating member and I love this site. My wanting it to be free has nothing to do with me being a cheapskate or whatever other nasty thing you want to say to me. I am an Economics major and a lover of the internet and my experience says that sites like this slowly dwindle down to a few hardcore users who end up creating an incredibly dense and polarized community, who stifle inovation, and set themselves up as the gods of what is and isn't good.

Oxymoronic or not.

Make Stripcreator Donation Free!

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Oxymoronic or not. Make Stripcreator Donation Free!

We've had issues with the voting feature before. In fact, the voting system used to be "free".

Honestly, your reply in this thread proves just what I had suspected when you first began this thread: you're just looking to start an argument and insult people for not having the same views that you have. I'm happy with the current donor/non donor system and therefore disagree with you. If that makes me naive, or "paranoid" of a "doomsday scenario" in your eyes, so be it. Don't try to insult me or hold your pending Economics degree over me or anyone else here. You're pretty much doing exactly what you accuse of the users here: assuming you are the god of what is economical (in your words, "good") or not.

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Mediocrity at its most average.

i've always thought comic voting should be open to non-donors. it would increase the popularity of the site, evidenced by the gazillion sites like ratemydog, ratemypoo, ratemydogifashionedoutofpoo. increased popularity should draw in more revenue for Brad too. which is cool. cause Brad rocks

i'd keep just about everything else for the donors, though, to motivate new peeps to donate to get the donor-only features. simply because i don't want to see ads plastered all over the site

and i also agree the voting system as we have it now is pretty flawed. lots of downvoting, multiple accounts, etc. but the main thing wrong with it imo is that people care so much. before we had ratings, it used to be that the payoff for a good comic or series were the comments you'd get when you posted it in a thread. now it seems the payoff is the rating, which is silly, since just about everyone here would agree that the comics of our own that we find funniest aren't our highest rated

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what if nigger meant kite

It would be wicked if everything was open source and free, and if we could all get along etc.  

I guarantee you Brad has thought hard about how he funds his site and how he runs it, and has made his choice.

Whoever you are, don't ever fucking PM me again.

This is Stripcreator.  

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Please replace the handset, and try again.

.. and he bit and PM'd me!

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Please replace the handset, and try again.

attitudechicka

You are taking my comments grossly out of context and placing meaning on them that I did not intend. Rather than turn this into a hate fest I would like to say that I think we ALL want the same thing for this site: For it it to be the most awesome comic creation site on the web and by that I mean one that each of us enjoys in our own way.  If you think I am trying to insult you it is because you are used to that type of banter on forums. My intent was not to insult you or anyone else.  I mention personal facts about myself so that you will know where my argument is coming from.   And as for me doing exactly what I am fighting against, I would say that I my argument has nothing to do with the content of this site rather with the system by which it is judged.

And tell your friends about this thread so we can get a good debate going. Remember we all want the same thing in the END, we just disagree about how to get there!

 Oxymoroninc or not.

Make Stripcreator Donation Free!

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Oxymoronic or not. Make Stripcreator Donation Free!

seanator

Lets huddle in the corner together and hope mommy and daddy can make it through this without anyone getting stabbed.

Well said crabby, well said seanator.

This is a website where people make comics.

life is not defined by how many stars you have on Stripcreator.

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Please replace the handset, and try again.

I agree that open voting is probably ideal and it's the way I'd love to have the site. But voting was open to everyone long ago and I learned that in any voting system the number one issue is cheating. I lost patience with trying to keep voting fraud in check and it also frustrated legitimate users tremendously.

The donations don't make much money for me but they do provide a useful psychological/monetary barrier in that anyone who wants to game the system has to place a dollar or two on the line. If they get caught, they've thrown their money away as they'll be banned and their votes erased. Plus, I have their Paypal account info with their real name and address, so they can be blocked from donating on any new accounts if needed.

If you have any ideas for how open voting could be implemented without exponentially increasing the amount of resources needed to monitor and maintain it, I'd be happy to hear them.

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www.bradsucks.net

The difference between digg and reddit and stripcreator voting is that those voting systems are used to refer people to a variety of sites all over the internet, not necessarily to reflect the quality of all the creative work within one site.

As Mandingo points out, there have been instances of people creating multiple donor accounts and using the extra voting power to affect ratings, but those instances are rare and when they are discovered, Brad strips the voting abilities of the extra accounts. I, for example, have two donor accounts, but I can only vote with this one.

Recently, we've been dealing with one user in Read My Damn Comics who creates a new account every couple days, posts a thread of his comics, and blows a gasket when people comment negatively on his strips. If voting were open, he is just the sort of person who would keep creating accounts just to slam the users who dared speak publicly about the quality of his work. People would be afraid to comment in the forums out of fear of downvoting.

Ulitmately, I make comics for me and I'm flattered when anyone votes on them. When I get downvoted, I just assume my comic wasn't as funny to a wider audience than the first few people who liked it.  As a moderator on this site who occasionally has to piss people off, I'd be bummed out if I got knocked down for keeping this a fun place to visit.

Brad

Wisdom.

Should we start a new thread or just keep the ball rolling right here. Let me know everyone.

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Oxymoronic or not. Make Stripcreator Donation Free!

attitudechickai can see why you'd get that vibe since he comes across pretty vehement, but i don't think he's trying to insult anyone, imo he's just passionate about it.

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what if nigger meant kite

I think if they bring in a new system, all the current donors should be WORSHIPPED LIKE GODS!

For reals though, I'm all for the site making more money for Brad (he deserves it) but what I have to wonder is how much more money it would make against how much more work would be involved for Brad.

I'm pretty sure in this new system he'd be bombarded with constant e-mails about how user a downrated user b several thousand times.

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The following statement its true. The previous statement is false

I'm seeing a lot of good points here, in that it would be nice for everyone to have the priveledge to vote and be voted on...

I guess I don't really do the voting, nor do I really care about my comics being voted on. Like Dingo said, there used to be the satisfaction of getting messages in your inbox about how awesome the comic was... I did that all the time when I first started. That was how I got invited to the forums, was by complimenting the right people (although at the time I didn't realise that they were mods... oh well).

Having a site with all features available to donors and non-donors alike takes away the niceties of donating. We all donated (As I said previously) to support brad and his endeavours... If these people that are complete newbies to the site come in, don't know who this "brad" character is, and just start throwing comics all over the site and downvoting everyone who crosses their path because they think its "hilarious", it kind of defeats the whole atmosphere that's been created.

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Okay, Lindsay, are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist.

If you were to open it up What about a minimum of 10 member votes with a minimum of 3 star rating, any lower than that and your comic votes no longer count. It would make it hard (but not impossible) for multi cheating, and reward users who haven't yet donated, but do contribute in a positive way to the site, which may in turn lead to them actually wanting to donate.

Im actually thinking about what 'Dingo said and start leaving more comic comments in the future, top rated is nice n all, but its even better to have that personal nod of approval.

Comments are awesome, but I can't always think of something witty to say, and sometimes I just want to give a random annonymous rating, so I can see crabby say "Who the fuck is rating this?"

I'm kidding, crabby. I never rated that comic.

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Mediocrity at its most average.

TheGovernor

I like the sound of that. A minimum 'star' rating to be able to vote on others comics.

The noob creating the multiple accounts has targeted me pretty visciously for some reason (I can't think why....) and seems to take great delight in blasting my top rated comics with every new persona he/she/it creates here.

While in the big scheme of things this means very little to me, within the microcosm of SC I try hard to make every comic as good as I can which is why I only have a little over 200 comics to my name. Seeing them belittled arbitrarily by some disgruntled little sot whose parents obviously ignored him as a child DOES get a bit frustrating.

Enough whining. Off to War.

Cheers!

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Kill Whitey.

I'd like to apologise to Creature - at best you were trying to provoke healthy debate. I have been a bit cranky lately to be fair but no excuse for me to start swearing at folks on t'internet. I am sorry.

That said, there has been some good discussion here - but if you can think of a better way to make SC voting fairer and less prone to abuse, please let us know. I stand by my reckoning that Brad's current system is the best one for him, and the majority of users.

And for once I agree with AngryAmerican!   Expect the first of the four horsemen by pub closing time.   

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Please replace the handset, and try again.

TheGovernor

That's a very interesting idea. Are there existing examples of non-donors who have 3+ stars? I guess I could do a database search, I'm just running out the door here.

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www.bradsucks.net

The minimum star rating is a great step in the right direction! It puts current donors in the hot seat to make the right call on whether someone is contributing to the site enough to justify them being able to vote on others! As long as all the current donors and 3+ stars folks know about the way the system worked it could do a lot for making the voting system more robust against random flame trolls while also expanding it.

There are always downsides to these things though, and while I can't think of any off the top of my head we should all try to think about who the winners are and who the losers are if this change is made. That way we can see who would have an incentive to cheat and why.

Don't forget, no system is perfect. There will always be defects we're just trying to minimize them and come out with a better voting system.

Excellent discusions! I thank all of you for your excellent comments!

Also, no one needs to apologize for being passionate about something. We all love this site and when we remember why each of us is here we realize that we're all on the same team.

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Oxymoronic or not. Make Stripcreator Donation Free!

Using user ratings as prerequisites for voting gives people incentives to downvote other strippers as well as comics.  Also, if someone gets voted below rating ability, what happens to the comics he's already voted on?

I don't disapprove of this idea (in fact, with manny I don't really care about votes so much), but I thought I'd throw that out for discussion.

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peddling the funny around since 09/24/2002